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With any job, there are, there’s like 30% of the stuff that you just have to do in that job, it comes with the job that you just may not like doing. And then 70% is the stuff that you enjoy doing. And so the fallacy that I think exists out there is that you have to love 100% of the time of the work that you do. And I think that’s really unrealistic, it’s unfair to us, it’s not being kind to yourself.
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So John, did you know that there are roughly around 300,000 on an average month?College and high school graduates who are trying to enter theworkforce.
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Yes, and on top of that, estimates suggest that 50% of job holders every single month are looking to find a different job.
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Yeah, and no wonder there’s so much anxiety around unemployment and new job numbers that are reported on a monthly basis. Welcome to Living notso fabulously,
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where we turn frozen job markets, AI anxiety, and money chaos into clarity, confidence, and maybe even a new job for you.
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AJ Mises is a former global director of HR for Facebook and Meta who 6 years ago evolved into a career coach, and entrepreneur, the founder and CEO of the Human Reach, where he helps professionals break career plateaus and land.The next role.
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With nearly two decades of experience in talent management and leadership development and appearances on everything from NBC to Fox,
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and now Yahoo Finance,
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AJ brings Silicon Valley insights to today’s toughest career questions. This is a timely conversation for anyone navigating the frozen job market.
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Welcome to the show, AJ.
1:36 spk_0
Thank you so much, guys. It’s so great to be here with you. Likewise, yeah. You know, there’s
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a lot of talk right now, uh, when it comes to the overall rise in unemployment, um, considering that the time of this recording, we just got the November numbers at 4.6%. That’s a four-year high.That’s up from 4.4% in September, up from 4% all the way back in January of 2025. So what are your, yeah, what are your thoughts on what you’re seeing right now when it comes to unemployment?
2:11 spk_0
Yeah, unemployment absolutely is rising right now, and it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, on headlines and everybody’s talking about it, but I really think about the job market as, you know, maybe taking the foot off the gas a little bit, but not slamming on the brakes. We’re not in a freefall right now, we’re, we’re definitely in a slowdown, but a, a 4.6% unemployment rate is, is historically normal. Um, and so what’s, what’s different right now is, is, I, I feel the vibe.Right, as the youngins will say, um, and, and most people feel really, really anxious right now because hiring momentum has stalled, but over the last 70 years, the US averages about 5 to 6% unemployment, uh, across all cycles. And so periods below 4% tend to overheat wages, right? It becomes a, uh, a candidate’s market versus an employer’s market, and thenWhen we’re at like 67%, that really signals some economic stress. So we’re not quite in in the economic stress part of the cycle right now. Who knows what could happen as, as, you know, the year ends and we enter into 2026, um, but companies are getting more cautious, they, they are hiring, but the, the way in which they’re hiring and who they’re hiring and why they’re hiring has changed.Um, and so the good news is that coming out of October into November, um, October had that negative job growth. November we added around 64,000 jobs. So things, things are looking better, um, and we, we wanna see that trend continue.
3:36 spk_1
Yeah, I think that there’s a lot of discussion around seasonality, especially with the fact that there was a kind of a pause there in the reporting because of the, the shutdown. I think that there’s also a lot of concern and anxiety around AI taking jobs, especially.When we hear about job losses in the tech sector being blamed on AI and maybe entry-level jobs for all those college students or high school students who are looking to come into the job market. So, how true is that in your, in your thought? Especially coming from a, a, a major tech firm, you probably have your ear to what’s going on.
4:18 spk_0
Yeah, so here’s, here’s the deal, guys. I really believe that AI is like giving a power tool to everybody on planet Earth, uh, especially here in the US, um, and the advantage doesn’t go to the tool, right? It goes to the person with the power tool that’s holding it. And so, uh, yes, there are the way in which people’s jobs are changing is being heavily influenced by AI. So maybe something that was a manual task that you had to do every single day.Um, you know, with your hands, uh, using a keyboard and a mouse, um, can now be automated, and so it’s not necessarily about AI replacing jobs, it’s about how it’s changing jobs. Now, for instance, like maybe an entry level person would have been required to look at invoices and put it into a system, etc. and AI can do that now. So, soReally what this what this is about, especially for those who are, who are maybe more entry level, is how are you utilizing AI to do your job? How are you empowered to be faster, be smarter, uh, be, um, uh, have a higher end work product as a result of utilizing AI, AKA the power tool in your hand. Um, and one of the things that, uh, was really interesting to me was, um,MIT Sloan, they ran a study about AI this year because it’s a big concern, right? Is AI taking jobs? Are we all just gonna be sitting, you know, at our houses, or, you know, not having jobs? Are we gonna move to this economy where, um, you need to know we have universal income. But, uh, MIT this year just read, um, or.Studied that companies that have adopted AI heavily uh tend to grow employment 6% faster and see a 9.5% higher sales growth over five years. And so, again, coming back to the power tool analogy, how are we using this as a tool to enable us to be better at our work?
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Yeah, I’m curious about that because it sounds like, you know, ever since the printing press we’ve been afraid of technology. So why does there seem to be such a disconnect between what people are experiencing or especially feeling and what smart people are telling us, or theoretically smart people are telling us?
6:21 spk_0
Yes, so, um, I think two things, I think.Um, you know, when, uh, Ford invented the assembly line to create cars, right? Um, and to bring cars down a manufacturing line, um, people were really scared about that happening and jobs getting replaced, and, you know, the, the, the, the labor market was really, you know, gonna go up in flames. Um, and I think we’re in one of those moments right now as a society, that AI has now come into the workplace, the sensationalism in the news is like, oh, it’s gonna take over jobs, everything’s gonna be automated.But, um, here, here’s the deal, and I come from an HR background like, like you, you gentlemen spoke about, um, there are certain things that AI just can’t do, right? There’s, there’s not judgment or prioritization or context and decision making, right? AI is a tool that gives us a lot of context and it gives us a lot of speed.Um, but like if I’m sitting in a room with a group full of leaders, and we’re trying to talk about best ways, for instance, to give feedback to each other, like AI is not gonna be able to, to, to, to do that, or um to ascertain whether or not something has, you know, legal ramifications. Sure, it can give us case law and different things that have happened in the past, but ultimately a human has to make that decision, and a human has to defend that decision. So, um, it really is to me a moment in time.Um, just like it was back, um, in, in the 4 days with the assembly line.
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Interesting. Thank you for that analogy. Folks, if you’re just tuning in, this is Living Not So Fabulously, where we mix real money talk and career talk with a dash of New Year.New hope for you. Today we’re speaking with former Facebook recruiter and current career coach AJ Mises. So, AJ, let’s, let’s talk about what really we see happening with the job market. There are a lot of economists who are basically saying we’re in this low hire, low fire.Uh, time frame right now, um, and we know that there are a number of reasons that that that they’re pointing to as to why that may be the case. During times like this, people are often holding on to their jobs, they’re not looking to switch.So what would you suggest to these individuals who are in a job that they don’t necessarily like, because we know reports say roughly 60% of Americans don’t like their current job. What would you suggest to these individuals about pivoting or changing to a new company?
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Yeah, this is such an important topic, and I talk with our clients about this all the time, and one of the phrases that I’ve been saying often is that security is not the enemy of ambition, it’s what funds it.And so there’s, there’s a difference betweenBeing in a job that is toxic, right? You have a boss who maybe is uh being demeaning towards you, or yelling, right? Or discriminatory, right, versus like just being unhappy with your work. And so this is the way that I think about uh about this. Um, the American Psychological Society ran a study about 30 years ago, and I, I call it the 70/30 study, there’s a long name to it, but I, I call it that. And the 70, the 70/30 study says um that with any job.There are, there’s like 30% of the stuff that you just have to do in that job, it comes with the job that you just may not like doing.And then 70% is the stuff that you enjoy doing. And so the fallacy that I think exists out there is that you have to love 100% of the time of the work that you do. And I think that’s really unrealistic, it’s unfair to us, it’s not being kind to yourself. Um, and so, uh, when you back it to this data, what actually makes people happy, the 70 30% and you think about, OK, in the role that I’m in right now, am I doing at least 70% of the things that I love doing, and it’s kind of that.That stuff that comes along, that I have to do, um, then, then you’re in a good spot. If that is somewhere not on the 70/30 scale, if you’re doing less than 70% of the stuff that you love doing, that is a time to prepare. Um, and so the, the market right now is rewarding people who build leverage before they need it. And so if the average job search in the US right now in this market this time I’m recording, is 7.5 months, then you have to think about.How you’re gonna be working right now to land something to get out or into something that you’re excited about. Um, this isn’t something that you can just flip on a switch and, and, and just do immediately.
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I want to provide some more context to what you just said there. The average job, as of the time of this recording takes about 7.5 months to find. Can you quantify that in the number of like resumes that are sent out or the number of actual interviews that have had to be done to, to land that job in 7.5 months?
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Yeah, so, um, it’s, it’s interesting. A lot of folks in the market right now think that by applying to jobs online, sending resumes is the way that you’re gonna land a job, and, um, over the past 10 years there’s been multiple studies, so depending on what you read,Um, people do not land jobs by applying on job boards or sending out resumes. People land jobs because they are referred by someone that they know, like, and trust into a company. It doesn’t mean that you need to know that person, but that a person that you know can refer you to another person that you know, that then eventually refers you into, into a company. And the reason why this isSo important right now is because like we’re talking about, companies are are shrinking or being really cautious about who they’re hiring. They want to make sure it’s the right person in the right role that is a risk mitigator. So that is, that’s someone that’s gonna come in with a playbook and know exactly how to execute it, of course, fine tune and and change things according to the company that they’re joining.Um, and so that necessitates trust, and trust is human-human. And so when you can be referred into a role, we see that there is sometimes a 7x decline in the amount of time that it takes for someone to get a role. Um, again, depending on, on the study. Um, our clients who work with us, uh, on average have a median time offer of 76 days, and we teach and coach in the referral methodology, which we call the side door method.Um, and, uh, and so that is, is a better bang for your buck, if you will, than applying online.
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So hold that thought. I, I, I do have another question for you, AJ. We’ll be right back after, after a quick break.Welcome back to Living Not So Fabulously. We’re back talking careers, money, job market realities with guru AJ Mises. So you just mentioned this whole idea of, um, I think what I think you’re, you’re saying is that you need a network, you need to expand your network, especially if you are thinking about trying to land a job.Um, let’s talk about the folks who are just entering. We have all of these individuals who are just entering. How do those individuals think about landing a job because they may not have the network, they may not know people at various companies because they are just starting.
13:32 spk_0
Yep, um, such a great question. I remember being here myself just entering into the workforce out of, out of college. Um, it’s daunting, but there’s, there’s just a few years ago, exactly. Um, so the, the thing about early career is it’s, it’s, it’s all about becoming useful really fast, and so a lot of times people think that their first job out of college has to be the thing that they’re going to do for the rest of their life. It’s really not about that.It’s about leading with potential, it’s about leading with proof. So projects that you’ve done in school or in internships, the outcomes then of those projects, I think this is the biggest thing I tell early in career people, you have, especially internships, the things that you worked on, what, so what’s the so what? What, what happened as a result of you doing that project or working on that thing?Um, during that time, but real examples, um, and so the goal in early career is not the perfect job, it’s really about building momentum, getting experience so that then you have other stories, other impact, um, areas that you’ve been able to accumulate, and then you can talk about that in, in job next, um, whether that that’s at the same company or or somewhere else. So think of it likeEarly career, like 1st 2-3 years out of college, it’s like an apprenticeship, so skill density, getting experiences, adding things, not necessarily worried about the title, um, but also but gathering experiences.
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I love that skill density. That’s a pretty cool too.
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Yeah, that is, that is interesting. Yeah, in, in the past, um, when the job market slowed down, um, most folks thought that the best thing that they could do would be to go back to school, take on some more debt, get it, get it, get more education, uplevel their education, or we’ve also seen that, especially in the last 5 years or so, a lot of people have said, well, I’m going to switch to a gig job.Um, now, that seems to be maybe drying up right now. So, what would you suggest or what are you doing with your clients right now who are in that spot?
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So I think um if if you’re making a pivot, right, there’s there’s two different ways to think about it. So, one is if, if you’re in a role that is, is uh what’s referred to as like a shadow career or shadow role, so it’s like just around the corner from the thing that you want to be doing, that doesn’t necessitate going back to school or, you know, doing gig work or or things like that, that it really just necessitates about packaging. How are you packaging your skills? How are you talking about your things functionally?Right? So like if I’m an HR person, I’m talking about employee relations, I’m talking about uh performance management, I’m talking about leadership development, right? Those are the functional areas that I work in. Um, and so how are you talking and packaging your experience in that way to be applicable to the thing that’s around the corner, the shadow role. Um, and then number 2 is, if you’re, if you’re thinking about a hard pivot.This economy right now, um, if, if you have a long runway, AKA like you have, you have funds in the bank to be able to like hold you afloat for a while, I say go for it. Um, and usually I mean like 12 months of runway. Um, if you have, uh, shorter than 12 months, this is not the time to be making a pivot.Um, this is not the time to be, uh, you know, exploring something that’s completely 180 to what you’ve been doing, just because of where we are in the market right now. Now different markets, uh, determine kind of, you know, the, the risk appetite that companies can take on taking somebody who hasn’t held the title before. Um, and so if you’re in that spot, short runway, but want to make a pivot, maybe think about what, what, not what A to Z is, so the, the, the actual hard pivot, but what would A to B look like?So if you’re moving from, let’s say like finance to marketing, well, maybe it’s like it’s moving to RevOps first, because you’re getting a little bit closer to sales and marketing versus and still using your finance experience versus making a hard pivot directly into creative and marketing.
17:21 spk_2
Hm, interesting. Yeah, I’m curious. I would like to follow up on it. For a lot of people, I think maybe since the pandemic officially completely ended, that hasn’t really been the optimal time to make a pivot. So if you don’t have that long runway, what signs would you say would indicate that that time is, is nearing, where, hey, hold on just a couple more, a couple more days, you might be able to make that pivot here shortly.
17:44 spk_0
Yeah, I think unemployment uh being lower, I think seeing salaries start to rise again and getting back into like a a candidate-driven market where candidates have more choices thanUm, employers, we saw that back in like 2021, when companies were telling everybody that they could work at home. We were seeing crazy salary increases, uh, we were, um, seeing talent jump from like fang company to fang company because, um, everybody could magically work remotely, um, obviously that’s, that is now uh dental.180, um, but, um, I think the gig economy just to your point is, is, is super interesting. Uh, we have a lot of clients who do end up consulting. So, let’s say that they’re, uh, a finance person, and, um, then they are maybe a, a fractional CFO or a fractional finance or accounting, uh, person to multiple different companies. I think it works. Um, but the, theThe basis or like the, the thing I want to bring us back to is about choosing your hard, right? So, it’s gonna be hard if you’re working at a company, it’s gonna be hard if you’re fractional and doing your own thing, and having to generate your own clients, having to market yourself, having to do sales calls, having to, um, you know, then build your book of business, and, and there’s just a different type of hard that’s working in a W-2 typical employment market. So they’re both hard, one’s not easier than the other, um, you just have to choose your hard.
19:07 spk_1
Yeah, I, I,I appreciate that. Um, I, no matter where, what direction we’re headed, we, we, there will be some obstacle that will run, we will run into, that will be the hard that we have to choose to get over. I, I want to ask a two part question here, but I think that maybe what you said might have, uh, been somewhat in the answer there.What are the mistakes that you’re actually seeing people making today when it comes to getting a job? Especially, let’s start off with recent graduates. What kind of mistakes are they making?
19:41 spk_0
Yeah, the first is I think being really focused on title and not onExperiences like we talked about. Um, so, so worried about like getting a director role. I, I was, uh, earlier this year I met with, with, um, a, a client who was fresh out of school, and he really wanted to get into a, like, director level role immediately after school. And I love that ambition. I’m so excited for him, uh, to eventually get there. But one of the things that I had to talk to him about is like the, the overall macro economy of how like jobs and and bureau bureau.Bureaucracy work within a company, you have to start somewhere, um, and so, you know, being really hung up on getting, you know, a director title right after graduating, could it happen? Sure. Um, is it more realistic that you’re going to get something more entry level or mid-level? Yes. I mean, so that’s where, where you really want to be focusing your time and just, just having a, a level set with yourself about what’s, what’s possible, and then when you get it, you can, you can accelerate and get promoted really quickly, um, but, but being realistic, uh, in, in, in that first role is important, um.And, uh, mid-career, I think is, is a little bit different, but I,
20:48 spk_1
I
20:49 spk_0
don’t know if you had any follow-ups there.
20:50 spk_1
Well, it, itwas mid-career, but, but one of the things I will, I will say I appreciate about what you were just saying is, um, both the, uh, the current outgoing CEO and the incoming CEO for Walmart are both individuals who started off as hourly employees working the aisles, putting things on the shelves.So there is a long term or maybe in sometimes like you said, you can accelerate there are there is the opportunity to get there. Let’s
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say this, I didn’t go to an Ivy League school, so maybe that’s the difference, but it never occurred to me to even think about getting a director or another job when I got out of college.
21:28 spk_1
Same here. But let’s talk about those folks who do have some experience. What kind of mistakes are you seeing that that they’re making?
21:36 spk_0
Yeah, so in mid-level, it’s, it’s really about being able to talk about the value that you bring and the leverage that you have now at this point in your career. So you’ve done a lot, um, and the mistake is that people then can’t really explain the impact, so quantify the impact.Um, in really simple terms, um, and if you can’t do that, then the market is not gonna price you correctly. Um, they’re not gonna take you seriously, because at this point in your career, mid-level, you should be able to say, I, I increased sales by 238%, or we entered into 9 new markets, blah blah blah, right? You, you should be able to really talk about.Guess the impact and then how you were able to come that. So, you, you’re at at mid-career, you’re sitting on like this warehouse of value, uh, and the problem is then how do you, uh, making sure that you’re translating that into impact statements and your stories and your materials.
22:27 spk_1
So thank you for joining us today, AJ. We really appreciate you sharing not only your insights about what’s going on in the market, but what you’re doing and suggestions you have for folks who are trying to move up the ladder or get into their first job.
22:42 spk_0
My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Good to see you both.
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So for individuals just entering the job market, remember that your ambitions and your goals are great, but also remember that you’re just starting your career. Setting your goals too lofty, shooting for the moon.can often prevent us from having the confidence we need to land that first job if we get turned down too many times.
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Finally, I’ll repeat what we said earlier in the episode, get really good at telling your story in a quantifiable way. What you do and why it matters to the person or the organization that’s interviewing you, so that maybe recommending taking a writing class or working with a coach such as AJ.
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Thanks for tuning in. If you’re, if you have any questions or guest suggestions for us, just email us at YF podcast@yahooinc.com.
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And if you like what you see, remember to scan the QR code to follow Yahoo Finance podcast for more videos and expert insights, because when you do, you may just land that dream job of yours. And until next time,
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stay fabulous.
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This content was not intended to be financial advice and should not be used as a substitute for professional financial services.